Help talk:CS1 errors/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions about Help:CS1 errors. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I know it has been for some time, but there needs to be a way to entire multiple volumes with multiple URL links into a single citation entry. It's simple enough to fix: stop throwing out useless error messages and allow the default "vol." to be omitted so it can be properly pluralized. Volume also shouldn't be lower case, but yeah English is gradually getting shoehorned into European standards there. — LlywelynII 22:40, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

This is entirely useless. It throws errors for no helpful reason when it's possible later editors might extend the number of editors but the displayed list should be limited to et al. regardless. Remove it entirely. — LlywelynII 09:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Some questions about Category:CS1 errors: URL, which has about 6,500 pages even after I run my bot through them:

1. Is there a way to generate a report with the most common errors, so we can see if we can fix them via bot?
2. What's the right way to deal with the error at /e/ (operating system), which contains a working link to https://doc.e.foundation/how-tos/upgrade-ecloud-storage
3. What's the right way to deal with the error at Abakan, which contains a working link to http://абакан.рф/main/glava-goroda-i-ego-zamestiteli/aleksej-viktorovich-lyomin.html (I tried Verisign's IDN Conversion Tool, but it didn't suggest an alternate URL).

Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 20:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

This page is for discussing Help:CS1 errors; there is a larger, more appropriate audience at Help talk:Citation Style 1.

Are you sure? Verisign gave me xn--80aaac0ct.xn--p1ai:

http://абакан.рф/main/glava-goroda-i-ego-zamestiteli/aleksej-viktorovich-lyomin.html → http://xn--80aaac0ct.xn--p1ai/main/glava-goroda-i-ego-zamestiteli/aleksej-viktorovich-lyomin.html

e.foundation fixed in the module sandbox:

{{Cite web/new |last=E Foundation |title=e Cloud Storage Upgrade |url=https://doc.e.foundation/how-tos/upgrade-ecloud-storage |url-status=live |access-date=August 25, 2021 |website=E Foundation |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210826034821/https://doc.e.foundation/how-tos/upgrade-ecloud-storage |archive-date=2021-08-26}}

E Foundation. "e Cloud Storage Upgrade". E Foundation. Archived from the original on 2021-08-26. Retrieved August 25, 2021.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Thank you for your responses. I'll repost question 1 at Help talk:Citation Style 1. I was using the conversion tool incorrectly by pasting the whole URL instead of just the domain name. Thanks for updating the module sandbox. Happy New Year! GoingBatty (talk) 06:06, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I need help and fix the reference for the Opening Ceremony Athens Olympic Games 2004 for the reference section number 20. 100.2.114.167 (talk) 04:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Looks like you're referring to the article 2004 Summer Olympics opening ceremony. Someone accidentally included the title in the |url= parameter. I fixed the reference in this edit. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 06:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Adding ".mw-parser-output span.cs1-maint {display: inline;} /* display Citation Style 1 maintenance messages */" to my css page produces the pointless message: "Warning: Element (span.cs1-maint) is overqualified, just use .cs1-maint without element name." Any ideas how I actually display maintenance messages? Davidelit (Talk) 13:34, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

OK, it works. Perhaps a note could be added warning editors to ignore the error message. Davidelit (Talk) 13:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Maintenance messages are hidden by default: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:CS1_errors#Preview_messages If I add an account, then I can do something that I don't understand, in order to see the maintenance messages, in order to submit edits without loose ends. I edit wikipedia about once every three years, when something annoys me, so there is going to be a limit to my patience and technical ability.

Please can there be a simple way for people like me to enable maintenance messages on edit pages, without creating another account, which we will lose in in the mean-time. 222.154.121.175 (talk) 23:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

I think I may have misheard you. It sounded like you were asking volunteer editors to modify, test, and deploy a set of modules that are used in millions of pages so that you don't have to worry about a loose end once every three years. I think the community's effort, as a whole, would be better spent helping you to either create an account and join the fun, editing more often, or helping you to learn to survive a minor annoyance three times per decade. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:06, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Yesterday, I fixed an error regarding a missing author from a New York Times article in Ferdinand Marcos's cult of personality, but an error message will not be hidden in another page, cult of personality, until when? Achmad Rachmani (talk) 14:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Your edit, the addition of |last=Gerth, appeared immediately at cult of personality. If you don't see it, you may need to refresh or WP:PURGE the page in order to clear your browser's cache or the cached page on the server. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:47, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

At [1] I got a warning at the top of the page (during edit mode) "Script warning: One or more cite magazine templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help)." Unfortunately it did not tell me which 'cite magazine' had the problem, nor what the problem was. Luckily there were only 2 'cite magazine' references in the article (out of 156 references), so I was able to do a search and rescue mission by hand. This might not always be practical on other articles. Turned out the problem was |location=Page 50 - which I changed to |page=50. The error messages are usually very precise and helpful and I thank the template maintainers for the work they put into this feature. Is it possible to tweak the template so that the warning appears on the actual reference itself (this one only showed at the top of the page) and specifies the location field (no such help was given). Thanks.  Stepho  talk  01:10, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible to tweak the template so that the warning appears on the actual reference itself? It does. But, because it is a maintenance message, not an error message, you have to enable its display. That is the purpose of the messages may be hidden (help) message. If you follow the help link to Category:CS1 maint: location you will find text that describes the reason for the message and you will find instructions that will explain how to enable maintenance message display.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 02:25, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you - that did the trick.  Stepho  talk  10:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

A citation on the book Impossible? Surprising Solutions to Counterintuitive Conundrums has a correct and all-numeric ASIN value but has an error message. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 00:49, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Kruskal count. GoingBatty (talk) 02:33, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

The assigned value is not an ASIN but is an ISBN as you will see if you do a google search for 0691150028 and if you follow the links at Special:BookSources/0691150028. Do not put ten-digit ISBNs in |asin=.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:54, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Achmad Rachmani: as explained in the text that appears when you follow the help link, "If the |asin= value is correct and all-numeric, use |isbn= instead and delete any |asin-tld= parameters." – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:28, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

That creates problems as there are links in other scripts such as Cyrillic: Datsan#External links. Nakonana (talk) 20:00, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Did the help text not tell you how to fix URLs not written in Latin script? If not, how would you improve the help text?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:40, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Took another look and figured it out. The error I saw was Check |url= value, but the information on internationalization of the url is written in the Check |archive-url= value section further down. I didn't read the latter section first time around because I thought the archive-url section in the help text would only address issues with the archive-url, not the url. Nakonana (talk) 19:43, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I suck at writing documentation, but I've had a go at tweaking it so perhaps now it makes more sense... which see.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:57, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

That looks good to me. Thanks for the update :) Nakonana (talk) 15:16, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

By trial and error, I have discovered that a harv error that looks like Harv error: linked from CITEREFBolza1967. arises if the citation is given after the {{reflist}} line and resolved if placed before it. Maybe this is in the MOS somewhere but it needs to be documented. (See this diff] for evidence.

Or have I missed something? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

cs1|2 does not emit Harv error... messages. The message comes from a user script that you have in your common.js page. See the script's documentation.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:59, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Ha! I should have guessed it would be All Your Fault!™

Yes, I have importScript('User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors.js'); // Backlink: User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors.js

(A tongue-in-cheek reply, in case it is not obvious.) Strange as it may seem, I won't be removing that script. And I've just added .mw-parser-output span.cs1-hidden-error {display: inline;} /* display hidden Citation Style 1 error messages */ to my .css, which would have resolved my "some messages may hidden" frustration had I spotted its existence earlier. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

To display maintenance messages in the rendered article, include the following text in your common CSS page (common.css) or your specific skin's CSS page and (skin.css).

(Note to new editors: those CSS pages are specific to you, and control your view of pages, by adding to your user account's CSS code. If you have not yet created such a page, then clicking one of the .css links above will yield a page that starts "Wikipedia does not have a user page with this exact name." Click the "Start the User:username/filename page" link, paste the text below, save the page, follow the instructions at the bottom of the new page on bypassing your browser's cache, and finally, in order to see the previously hidden maintenance messages, refresh the page you were editing earlier.)

Given unregistered editors can't create pages (and even if we could, I'll be given another address with a different common.css page in less than 24 hours), how can I go about viewing such messages? 2603:8001:4542:28FB:C917:2D30:4F00:28C9 (talk) 01:43, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Create an account? – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:40, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

The one time I registered a Wikimedia account before ended with a pornography addiction and me quitting the site for two years. With all due respect, are there any other options? 2603:8001:4542:28FB:C917:2D30:4F00:28C9 (talk) 02:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

No, and what on earth would WP have to do with pornography addiction?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Other options include working on any of thousands of other issues on Wikipedia that do not require registering an account. It sounds like editing related to CS1 maintenance messages is not for you. Sorry to hear about your previous experience. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:23, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

So there's no accommodation intended for unregistered editors to ever see these messages, even if only during the preview stage of editing an article? Or should i just go into DevTools and hijack those classes each time? -- 188.26.44.57 (talk) 14:00, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Some features are not available to unregistered editors. Hidden categories, for example. There has been pushback on CS1 maintenance messages being displayed to all viewers, since they are not error messages. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:58, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

In the "cite news" template I'm getting template error messages for newspaper dates in the late 1880s, while early 1900s I have no problem. The dates are real calendar dates and can additionally be seen on the front pages of the newspapers. All urls go to books.google where a scan of the dated newspaper exists.

"Psychological Mysteries". The Sunday Herald. Baltimore, Maryland: The Herald Publishing Company. ‎March 10, 1895. p. 18. Retrieved December 18, 2023. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

"March Magazines". The Post Express. Rochester, New York: Post Express Print Company. ‎March 13, 1897. p. 9. Retrieved December 18, 2023. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

"New Philosopy of Health". Providence News. Providence, Rhode Island: The News Company. ‎March 31, 1897. p. 2. Retrieved December 18, 2023. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

"Faith as a Healing Force". The Deseret News. Salt Lake City, Utah. July 13, 1901. p. 4. Retrieved December 18, 2023.

"The Western Reserve". The Evening Tribune. Esterville, Iowa: Carpenter & Sillge. May 26, 1902. p. 4. Retrieved December 18, 2023.

"Spiritualists in Convention". St. Joseph News-Press. St. Joseph, Missouri: News Corp. October 21, 1909. p. 9. Retrieved December 18, 2023.

Any way to fix this error message? Thanks. 5Q5|^✉ 16:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Make sure that your dates don't contain invisible characters. In each of the examples with error messages, there is a U+200E left-to-right mark character immediately after the '=' assignment operator. These are most often the result of copy pasta.

{{cite news|title=Psychological Mysteries|newspaper=The Sunday Herald|location=Baltimore, Maryland|page=18|publisher=The Herald Publishing Company|date=March 10, 1895|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Ww5CAAAAIBAJ|access-date=December 18, 2023}}

"Psychological Mysteries". The Sunday Herald. Baltimore, Maryland: The Herald Publishing Company. March 10, 1895. p. 18. Retrieved December 18, 2023.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:17, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Fascinating. In the future if this happens I'll copy the string of code into an online Unicode Character Detector, which will locate the invisible character. In this case it was located at the equal sign "date=". I backspaced and typed in a new sign. I've occassionally seen this red error message in reference lists. Now I'll know how to fix it. Thanks. 5Q5|^✉ 13:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Dead Twitter posts have future dates. For example, in List of Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir episodes:

• {{cite tweet|user=ChikaraYT|number=13954405235828367744| date=8 April 2016| title=Twitter post}}
• @ChikaraYT (8 April 2016). "Twitter post" (Tweet) – via Twitter. {{Cite tweet}}: |date= / |number= mismatch (help)

The above message appears because the date value provided (8 April 2116) is 100 years later than the date in the source (8 April 2016). Achmad Rachmani (talk) 00:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

And when you clicked on the "help" link in the error message and were taken to the explanatory text, did that help you to resolve the problem? If not, how would you improve the documentation? When I click on that link to Twitter, I get an error, and archive.org does not have a record of the tweet, so the citation may have to be replaced by a citation to a different source. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello! Over at Template:Marquette (MILW train), there a reference with a legitimate date of January–February–March 1940. Is it possible to override the template error that gives? Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 23:28, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

No. You can rewrite as:

{{Citation |mode=cs1 |section=No. 18-The Marquette |title=The Milwaukee Road |type=Timetable |date=January–March 1940 |publisher=Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific Railway|via=Streamliner Memories |pages=10, 22 |url=https://streamlinermemories.info/Milw/Milw40TT.pdf |access-date=2023-12-01}}

"No. 18-The Marquette". The Milwaukee Road (PDF) (Timetable). Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific Railway. January–March 1940. pp. 10, 22. Retrieved 2023-12-01 – via Streamliner Memories.

I used {{citation}} because the timetable is not a magazine. |page=10 (table 18) from the original template is misleading. Table 18 is not on page 10 but rather, is on page 22.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:59, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I appreciate the work. I went with cite book to match the article it's used in. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 00:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I fixed the above to have the correct publisher, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific Railway, not Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 00:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

The help page says “This error is reported when a name-list parameter ... has an assigned value that is composed solely of digits and / or punctuation” but the author e-TF1 does not appear to be in that category. The full citation is {{cite web |author=e-TF1 |url=http://lci.tf1.fr/biographies/mylene-farmer-4883698.html |title=Mylène Farmer – Actualité, vidéos et photos – MYTF1News |publisher=Lci.tf1.fr |access-date=14 March 2014 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140314064858/http://lci.tf1.fr/biographies/mylene-farmer-4883698.html |archive-date=14 March 2014 }}. The author name appears that way in the source code for the cited page so is likely to be intentional. Should I ignore the error, change the way the author is written, or change the way the cite template is used here? Thanks --Northernhenge (talk) 22:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Maintenance messages are not errors; were there are error, you would see |<param>= has numeric name with a help link to the numeric name help text. Your example template does not emit such a message. The maintenance message CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list is emitted because e-TF1 includes a digit. The message also includes a link to Category:CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list where you can find a description of what the message means.

Were it me, I would rewrite the template like this:

{{cite web |url=http://lci.tf1.fr/biographies/mylene-farmer-4883698.html |title=Mylène Farmer |website=MYTF1News |access-date=14 March 2014 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140314064858/http://lci.tf1.fr/biographies/mylene-farmer-4883698.html |archive-date=14 March 2014 |language=fr}}

"Mylène Farmer". MYTF1News (in French). Archived from the original on 14 March 2014. Retrieved 14 March 2014.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:48, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying and assisting. I have thought of maintenance messages as errors, but they’re clearly different from each other. --Northernhenge (talk) 10:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Right now there are 27,193 pages (Category:CS1 errors: periodical ignored) that are effected by having "work=" dropped by the "cite book" template. Since this is leaving alot of maintenance work for editors if done manually, I propose that "work=" be reinstated until a backup plan can be put into place. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

We have fixed much larger error piles in the past. There is no deadline. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Very often, the "volume" is more than a number, but the template is coded in a manner that doesn't allow for that and it leads to horrible red "admonishments" in the ref section. Example: a large work which has "volumes" split into several "parts", each bound separately, each with a title of their own, like "Volume V/Part 1: Galilaea and the North". So not a journal with "volume" plus "number", but a book. The template must accomodate for that, not force the editor to cut down the ref or twist their brain for improvised solutions - and in the end to give up the template altogether and write & format everything by themselves by hand. Already the language of this "help" page is so technical that I give up after a few sentences, and I'm quite familiar with science and, I wish to believe, far from functionally illiterate.

Please help, it's been a problem for far too long. I cannot code, but I know the principles and it can't be that much of a big deal. The same goes for all the template rigidities, which work like a Procrustean bed for (or actually against) the editor. Thank you! Arminden (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Arminden: Hi there! It seems you were referring to a reference on the Qision article. I changed |volume=Volume V/Part 1 to |volume=V/Part 1 to remove the error. The error is only to say that you shouldn't start the |volume= parameter with the word "Volume" or an abbreviation of "Volume". You won't see an error if you use something like |volume=V/Part 1: Galilaea and the North. GoingBatty (talk) 17:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you GoingBatty! It makes perfect sense (repetition). In other cases there's more guesswork needed, at some point you get enough of it. Usually I recheck my edits, if I see "vol.: Volume" I'm sure to remove the repetition. It's this pedantic way of coding for robots that kills mr, and presuming that your code got all possible options covered, which is obviously never the case. If they allowed a minimal wiggle room, we'd all have to gain from it.

Now we have "vol. V/Part 1", so I'll go back and change Part to lowercase, too. So double-checking & staying flexible is needed anyway.

Thanks again! Arminden (talk) 18:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Apologies if this is a dumb question. I'm looking at a page with dozens of {{cite book templates. If you click edit and then preview you get an error at the top of the page saying one or more cite book templates has errors, and the help topic links to this page. Trouble is that I have absolutely no clue where the error or errors are. How are you supposed to figure out the error location so you can fix things? Just the first error location would be fine, then I could fix that one and go on to the next one... Efbrazil (talk) 16:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Error messages are not hidden so they should be visible to you. Maintenance messages (which are not errors) are hidden. You have to enable display of those messages by following the instructions at Help:CS1 errors § Controlling error message display.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for helping Trappist. I tried adding error visibility to my css page and used shift+F5 but still don't see anything. I tried searching on the word "error" on the page after refreshing, and I tried scanning the page, but no luck. The article in question is Climate change mitigation. I only see the error warning message if I click "edit" and then "preview". Can you take a look and see if the errors are obvious to you, and if so how you see them? Efbrazil (talk) 19:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

That article shows an error at reference #279 (Cardenas): "{{cite book}}: |journal= ignored (help)". – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Did you find that error by visually scanning the references for red text? Since there are hundreds of references that wasn't working for me.

As a side note, it's crazy to me that the error message at the top of the page doesn't link to the first instance of the error. Efbrazil (talk) 19:34, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

I use CTRL+F and search for (help) to find error messages and cs1 to find maintenance messages.

The preview messages were originally designed and implemented to link to the first instance of the error. But, for technical reasons, we could not implement it in a way that didn't violate the html standard so you have to look for the messages.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Why not report the first reference number that fails in the error message? Once Jonesey95 said to look at reference 279 it was all straightforward. Efbrazil (talk) 19:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Because each template is processed independently and there is no mechanism to allow Lua modules to 'remember' stuff from a previous call.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Then perhaps the error message could report the first 50 characters of the offending template? Then the user can then copy and paste that text to search the textarea window. So show something like this:

Script warning: A template that begins with "{{Cite book |author1=Garrett, L. |author2=Lévite, " has errors (help).

Alternatively, if the script knows what line number the template error is on it could report that. Just give the user something! Efbrazil (talk) 16:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Module:Citation/CS1 does not know the actual name of the template in the wikitext; the name could be the name of a redirect. The module does not get a wikitext representation of the template; could be written in vertical or horizontal format; whitespace may or may not exist around pipes (|), around parameter names, around the assignment operator (=), around parameter values so, for the purposes of CTRL+F searching:

{{cite book |author=Author |date=Date |title=Title |location=Location |publisher=Publisher}}

is not the same as:

{{cite book | author = Author | date = Date | title = Title | location = Location | publisher = Publisher }}

is not the same as:

{{cite book|author=Author|date=Date|title=Title|location=Location|publisher=Publisher}}

is not the same as:

{{cite book
|author=Author
|date=Date
|title=Title
|location=Location
|publisher=Publisher
}}

Module:Citation/CS1 does not know the position of the template within the wikitext so cannot provide a line number.

From a rendered citation with an error or maintenance message, you can hover over the title extlink, right click > Copy link address, and then paste that into the CTRL+F search window. Doesn't work for identifier links.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:59, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! It's clear you know this system well. Could you write a section at the beginning of the CS1 errors page giving explicit step by step instructions on how to find the error on the page? Right now there's endless description on what can cause errors, but no instructions on how to find the location of the error. Efbrazil (talk) 16:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Your advice:

I use CTRL+F and search for (help) to find error messages and cs1 to find maintenance messages.

That advice was precious for me too, and thank you for it; but I needed some time to find it.

I have added that your advice to the Help:CS1 errors#Error and maintenance messages section of the article, hopefully in an admissible way. If I missed something (I have put the quoted statement in blocquote, and now I see <code parameter didn't apply there so I used italic...), please correct it. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 11:55, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:CS1 errors has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

A section link is broken in Help:CS1 errors#bad_date. Where it says:

[[Help:Citation_Style_1#Date_compliance_with_Wikipedia's_Manual_of_Style|subset of the date rules]]

Change it to:

[[Help:Citation_Style_1#Date_format_compliance_with_Wikipedia's_Manual_of_Style|subset of the date rules]]

73.37.211.177 (talk) 08:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done Well spotted! -- John of Reading (talk) 09:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

This section doesn't say how to resolve the base or core issue at all. It just say, Oh, install script you don't have power to do into your wikipedia. Can we get how to resolve one of these errors because I don't see where the error is on the page and it doesn't help you to flag where the error is, which is a lot less useful that a lot of the current programs. Screw it, I'm posting it, 'cause there is no apparent error I can find in any of the citations.--KimYunmi (talk) 20:10, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

See the big (help) link? Click that. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:22, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

If you want more specific help, you'll have to be more specific about where you're seeing that message. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

date = Fall/Winter 2012 does not seem to work. [2]

jps (talk) 16:03, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you follow the help link that is part of the error message and read the help text? If you did and still don't know why that error message is present, tell us what it is about the help text that you don't understand so that we can improve it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:20, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I did. Seasons are supposed to be included. If you use date = Fall 2012, it works without error. It seems that a season of Fall/Winter is the problem. At least, that's the best I can surmise. jps (talk) 16:29, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

It appears you have written the citation correctly, since that's how the date is written in the source. So just leave the error message, it's a false alarm. Jc3s5h (talk) 17:32, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Not true. The consensus for cs1|2 date handling is published at Help:Citation Style 1 § Dates where we say that the solidus is not supported in cs1|2 dates. If you leave the error readers will see it. Someday an en.wiki editor may fix it. Don't leave a mess for someone else to clean up. It is best to write the date in a way acceptable to the cs1|2 template so that others don't have to clean up after you and readers aren't exposed to our error messages.

If you believe that cs1|2 should support the solidus range separator, get consensus to do so at Help talk:Citation Style 1.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:55, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

This reply is written in a style that suggests it's better to write a false date that doesn't create an error message than to write a correct date that isn't supported. It's only by reading a different post can one find that there is, in this instance, a way to write the date in a supported way. Jc3s5h (talk) 20:42, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

If the correct way to write more than one season is to use an en dash, then that should be indicated in the Help file, I guess. But is it really that important that we have this rule? jps (talk) 20:45, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually, scratch that. In the Help:Citation Style 1 § Dates section it says that we should use slashes! Sources are at liberty to use other ways of expressing dates, such as "spring/summer" or a date in a religious calendar; editors should report the date as expressed by the source. Although the seasons are not normally capitalized, they are capitalized when used as dates in CS1 templates, and the capitalization of the season stated by the source may be altered to follow this convention. In cases where the date as expressed in the source is not compatible with the template software, the citation should be created without using a template. So this should be fixed in the code unless it would break something else. Otherwise, seems like I am required to use a non-templated format which would be pretty annoying if that were the case. For a single slash I have to abandon the template? jps (talk) 20:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Near the top of the help text is a bullet list. The sixth item in that list is:

• hyphens or slashes instead of en dashes in date ranges (en dashes are required)

A bit further down is a table captioned: Examples of unacceptable dates and how to fix them; see the second item. See also the table Help:Citation Style 1 § Date format compliance with Wikipedia's Manual of Style

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:55, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Slashes are the normal way I have seen bibliographies indicate two seasons. En dashes make sense as a punctuation requirement for specific dates so that, for example, parsers can work, but I see no reason why a Season string should throw an error for including a slash. Is there some sort of code that / breaks in the templates? If not, it is apparently a mere stylistic choice. jps (talk) 20:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is a style choice on Wikipedia to use en dashes for day, month, season, and year ranges. The template complies with that style choice. Wikipedia's Manual of Style (MOS) has a lot of guidance for editors. It can be a lot to absorb, so take your time. I have been here for over ten years and still learn things when I visit the MOS pages. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:29, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

This is fine for day, month, and year ranges, but why seasons? I don't see any discussion that explains how that consensus was arrived at. Can you point me to it? Otherwise, it looks like consensus imposed on sloppy exclusions in the code near edge cases. jps (talk) 21:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

These are date rangers, and all date ranges are expressed with dashes. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll also note that in the style guide you cite, there is text that covers this very situation: The slash notation (2005/2006) may be used to signify a fiscal year or other special period, if that convention is used in reliable sources. Seems like the appropriate thing to do here is use slash since that is what the source uses. jps (talk) 21:33, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Using |author1=Anonymous generates an error message which directs editors to Help:CS1 errors#generic name. That section says to "use a more appropriate parameter", but does not say which, much less give an example.

Which parameter would be appropriate? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Pigsonthewing, Just stalking by this talk page and found your query. In this case i would suggest you to not to use |author1=Anonymous as it is not an actual name of any author. just leave that parameter blank. However, In any scenario regarding authors name conflicting with generic names, use

{{Cite web |author1=((name))<!--Dual parentheses around-->}}

It wouldn't produce any error messages.––kemel49^{(connect)(contri)} 01:41, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm editing Atomic clock which at the moment has 212 references. Before saving my edits, I preview the article and the above message is displayed. I know such nits are common and may be preexisting and not in anything I added. The question is "which one of the 212 references needs fixing?"

To see it yourself, start at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atomic_clock&action=edit&oldid=1241897325 and hit "Show preview".

I suppose best would be an #anchor that was linked to directly. Second, a pattern I could search for. But "warning", "maintenance", "template", "{{cite" and "help" all fail to turn up anything.

Then there's the "messages may be hidden" postamble. Does that mean hidden in the public rendered version (reasonable for minor things), or hidden in the preview I'm looking at this instant? The latter seems stupid and useless. Editing and reloading custom CSS styles is a giant PITA that risks losing my in-progress Wikipedia edits.

After much effort, I asked the browser for an unstyled render and found appended to reference #4 ("First accuracy evaluation of NIST-F2" the text " {{cite journal}}: Empty citation (help): CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of June 2024 (link)". It turned out someone omitted the final digit 4 from the doi:10.1088/0026-1394/51/3/174.

An easy fix, made infuriating by the difficulty of finding the freaking error message. It should not require such an epic struggle.

There really should be a clickable link, or a documented searchable text string (like "CS1 maint:") to enable an editor to easily find the offending citation template. 97.102.205.224 (talk) 09:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I clicked and looked, before I realized you found it, and you know the search string now. The doc pages of templates are open to editing by all, and you are welcome to add appropriate text to the doc page of the type you suggest to aid other editors in finding the problem more quickly than you were able to, and it would be appreciated. Mathglot (talk) 10:34, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot: I can propose an {{edit semi-protected}} for the documentation, but the way I did it depends on my using Firefox; other browsers don't have View > Page Style > No Style menu options in the base browser. You need to enable developer extensions, add a plug-in, or enter some esoteric javascript incantation. (I think viewing the HTML source and searching that would work, but it's pretty cluttered and hard to read.) 97.102.205.224 (talk) 12:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

First this is not an error, this is a maintenance message. This is hidden by default because broken DOIs are common and do not usually required any action from the reader or most editors (bots handle this usually). That's why it's flagged as maintenance, and not error.

Second, there is a searchable string, and that searchable string is indeed "CS1: maint". If you followed the help link in the preview message, you'd know this. To enable it, you must be a logged in editor with a custom .css file in your userspace. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Headbomb: Um, you'll find the string is actually "CS1 maint:" (notice the location of the colon). Second, that information does not appear anywhere on the linked help page. Please go and search yourself if you doubt me! You can find mention of Category:CS1 maint: archived copy as title, but that's not described as text that appears in the maintenance message.

Seriously, "If you... you'd know this" comes across as pretty impatient, and it's not justified. Reading the linked help was the first thing I did, and the help page was spectacularly useless; thus my plaint on this, the corresponding talk page.

I fail to see the point of having the visibility of the header not linked the visibility of the messages, but that's a larger-scale issue; in the short term the confusingness can be mitigated with better documentation. Just for example, "hidden by default" would be much clearer than "may be hidden", as it gives the reader some clue about "depending on what?"

I'll try to come up with a proposed edit to fix it, it's just going to be pretty involved so I've been putting it off. 97.102.205.224 (talk) 05:50, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

If you click the help link, you are taken to Help:CS1_errors#Controlling_error_message_display, which I will partly reproduce and bold/embiggen here:

Preview messages

This is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved! → Go to editing area Script warning: One or more {{cite book}} templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help).

Error and maintenance messages

By default, Citation Style 1 and Citation Style 2 error messages are visible to all readers and maintenance messages are hidden from all readers.

To display maintenance messages in the rendered article, include the following text in your common CSS page (common.css) or your specific skin's CSS page and (skin.css). (Note to new editors: those CSS pages are specific to you, and control your view of pages, by adding to your user account's CSS code. If you have not yet created such a page, then clicking one of the .css links above will yield a page that starts "Wikipedia does not have a user page with this exact name." Click the "Start the User:username/filename page" link, paste the text below, save the page, follow the instructions at the bottom of the new page on bypassing your browser's cache, and finally, in order to see the previously hidden maintenance messages, refresh the page you were editing earlier.)

.mw-parser-output span.cs1-maint {display: inline;} /* display Citation Style 1 maintenance messages */

After (error and/maintenance) messages are displayed, it might still not be easy to find them in a large article with a lot of citations. Messages can then be found by searching (with Ctrl-F) for "(help)" or "cs1".

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 11:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)