User talk:Fenix down/Archive 17

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Fenix down. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Can you please tell me why the page Ishan Pandita has been deleted. I used proper reliable sources to make this article. But it has been detected. It's very disappointing to me. Debabrata Sarkar Mejbill (talk) 14:21, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

The AfD was clear in its consensus that the sources provided were insufficient to show GNG. Fenix down (talk) 21:25, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

To be honest, I never saw the AFD. But hang on - I thought the closer was supposed to be uninvolved - which means that someone else should close it. There was no clear consensus on the second AFD. I'm not sure why the third would be less so given the coverage since then. Nfitz (talk) 23:58, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

I didn't get a response on this User:Fenix down. Nfitz (talk) 20:28, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Are you going to respond? You were involved, and then you closed this. Please revert the close. Nfitz (talk) 22:09, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, only just seen this. Not going to reopen, overwhelming consensus through repeated AfD that this player is not notable. No keep votes in the last AFD, no action taken that any another admin wouldn't have taken, had no idea I had previously closed an identical nomination. Please explain how a different conclusion would have been reached in this discussion by a different admin. Fenix down (talk) 22:34, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm perplexed how previous close was so close (I'd hardly call that overwhelming), but I can easily find more GNG coverage since the last AFD. I'm also perplexed why I didn't see this during the period. one, two three and four. Honestly, this one, with GNG coverage, looks better than the other NFOOTBALL one we are bickering about. Nfitz (talk) 03:00, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree, but people's opinion changes and sometimes different editors are involved at different points. I'd completely forgotten about the previous AfD, but the latest one was a 5-0 for delete. There was no other option really. Fenix down (talk) 10:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Still Salting seems to be overkill, given how close the second AFD was. Normally one would recreate with additional sources and go again ... or reopen the AFD for further discussion. What do you suggest? Nfitz (talk) 01:19, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not seeing how it's a delete. There were only three delete votes after I added sources. One noted that the sources were "local" - and when I queried them (as they hardly local), they didn't respond. The other two didn't mention GNG, and didn't address the references.

Looks to me that no one has evaluated the sources. Nfitz (talk) 23:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Let's not make presumptions about what editors may or my not have done. The three delete votes after you all say he fails GNG (one which specifically discussed GNG and two of them agreeing with the nomination that specifically notes gng failure). This was a 6 to 3 concensus to delete and of those three keep votes 1 of them was keep citing WP:FOOTYN, so doesn't really count as it doesn't cite a valid guideline, so really only 6-2. Sorry but this isnt a no consensus close. Fenix down (talk) 06:57, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the vote count has to do with it. I'm not sure why you stress (and dismiss) the one keep (which was clearly in error - as I commented myself during the AFD), and ignore that all the deletes after I improved the article were flawed. Nfitz (talk)

Nfitz, I haven't always agreed with Fenix's closes of football AfDs, but I don't see anything wrong here. (Also note I didn't participate in the discussion, but I would also have voted to delete.) If you want to rescue the article, I'd recommend asking for a draft. Fenix, sorry to talk page stalk, it was on my watchlist for some reason and I thought this was a new footy AfD. SportingFlyer T·C 19:14, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

What about the years of GNG sources for him User:SportingFlyer such as one and two? Nfitz (talk) 20:23, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

In a blurb, those are all "Youth player scores in youth game/youth player gets called up." I think it's reasonable that those were discounted, though I don't like when users ignore GNG sources from other languages, those don't do it for me. He's WP:TOOSOON. We can recreate it when he appears for Bangladesh. SportingFlyer T·C 20:30, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

It would be more convincing if you said if, rather than when. And if there weren't so many other examples, User:SportingFlyer over such a long period of time three, four, five, six, seven - which is interesting because he's using his fame to discuss covid, eight .... Nfitz (talk)

I Google translated a couple at random and the COVID one really is really suggestive to me. They all discuss him in the context of being a good youth footballer who either performed well in a youth tournament or got called up to further his development. I'd be surprised if he doesn't go on to become notable, but if he stops playing tomorrow, I don't think he is. SportingFlyer T·C 21:31, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

The bottom line is the closing admin has to assess arguments in the AfD. You tried, and I gave you time, to assert GNG. Unfortunately there simply wasn't consensus that what you did was enough. Delete votes after you tried to improve the article all clearly referenced GNG failure. Fenix down (talk) 22:56, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I've not convinced they did ... and I never even saw them in AFD. I'm not convinced we are having proper participation during AFD currently, with all the strangeness in world. Okay ... put it in Draft, and I'll see what I can do to improve it. Nfitz (talk) 03:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

But no closing admin should make such assumptions. Happy to retore to your userspace to work on. Fenix down (talk) 10:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure. Ta Nfitz (talk) 01:19, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I haven't seen that restore yet. Nor a response about Ishan Pandita that you've now archived! Nfitz (talk) 23:42, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

This should now be in you userspace. Regarding Ishant Pandita, the thread was archived automatically by a bot btw, not me, I'm happy that salting is appropriate. It was the third time the article was created and there is clear consensus that despite there being some sources, the player isn't notable. Fenix down (talk) 07:18, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

The second AFD wasn't exactly unanimous, with some good sources - and how do you account for the GNG sources that have surfaced SINCE then? The third AFD was under-attended, and failed to consider any of the new GNG sources, and was improperly closed. It should be reopened for further discussion. Nfitz (talk) 21:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

The third AfD was a 5-0 unanimous decision. I'm happy that's consensus. Fenix down (talk) 06:34, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I haven't disagreed with you - but that only covers one of the five reasons to review a deletion per WP:DRVPURPOSE. Primarily I'm raising 3, and 5 is also a concern (though no point mentioning if it wasn't for 3). Nfitz (talk) 16:42, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what you want me to do, a page has been deleted three times and the last time unanimously and several editors felt that enough was enough and the page should be protected to prevent further recreation without proper review. You presented some sources above which go some way potentially to showing GNG which is why I restored that article to your userspace so you could work on it. Do you want this one restored to your userspace? If so, please say and I will. The page will remain salted and when you have prepared a draft you can apply here for someone independent to review and consider whether it should be recreated, or you can use DRV. At the moment, because I cannot reliably interpret the sources you present, I am not going to unsalt an article deleted through multiple AfDs. Fenix down (talk) 17:03, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't want it in my userspace if it's salted. What I'm asking you to do is reopen the AFD to allow for the presentation of new information. Nfitz (talk) 18:50, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

No, I dont know how many times I have to say this, consensus was clear and unanimous, and the article has previously been deleted multiple times. You missed your chance to partake, we don't open old AfDs because someone has found new sources. How long would you leave it before it was too long to reopen? A week? A month? A year? You've presented some links, you've offered no indication how they would satisfy GNG, just "here are links, therefore GNG". You'll go through the normal process like everyone else. If you think there is content in your links which will satisfy GNG, I am happy to restore the article to your userspace, you can work on it and present a draft for assessment through the usual channels as outlined below to be assessed by an uninvolved admin. Unless you want me to restore to your userspace I have nothing further to add to this conversation. Fenix down (talk) 21:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

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Hi Fénix ! I hope your ok.

I’m writing to you because I was wondering if you could create an article for Max Heyes ( Radio 4 producer ) I seen you created the Radio 4 page, so I thought you are the right person for this. Thank you so much ! Ladystardust37 (talk) 00:31, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

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Can you please close PROD on Kickstart FC as well? Thanks. Coderzombie (talk) 18:51, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Done. Fenix down (talk) 21:00, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

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Why didn't you relist? The Keep arguments were fairly floored in my opinion. Govvy (talk) 08:03, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I am also curious how you came to assess that there was sufficient consensus to keep the article in this deletion discussion? Could you please help me to understand your decision making in this case? Thanks, Jack Frost (talk) 12:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Fenix down. Was going to thank you for reviewing this page, but see Govvy has got here first! I was just going to ask given you have decided to keep this page doesn't that mean you are happy with the general concept of having pages like this (as to me seems obvious from many articles in many sports)? Therefore should not other similar articles be kept (maybe improved)? I have just found it a bit tiresome replying to what I see as poorly justified complaints and would prefer to only address what you obviously still see as valid given the decision to relist. Thanks. Jopal22 (talk) 12:38, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I didnt relist because there was only one other delte vote. It seemed pretty clear that consensus in this case was to keep. Looks like there are some clean up issues, but that is not a case for AfD. Fenix down (talk) 17:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I wouldn't want editors to draw conclusions about other articles from this AfD. Each article needs to satisfy GNG. Fenix down (talk) 17:36, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

But there are four votes for keeping and technically three for deleting, that's not that clean cut. It should have been relisted for more input in my opinion. I am also saddened by the keep votes and comments, no one is addressing the issues of the article. I don't see anyone reviewing the article for the content and structure provided. O well. Govvy (talk) 19:15, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Fenix down! I need your help. An anonymus user vandalizes The list od tallest buildings in Croatia. Dalmatia Tower isn't the tallest building in Croatia. This skyscraper is not finished yet. Please, can you help me ? Bonzg (talk) 14:04, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Bonzg (talk) 14:00, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

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Dear Fenix, I request you to restore the F.C.Deccan page, it is professional football club with and one of the fasting growing clubs in Bengaluru,India.First private club in Bengaluru to build its own facility in 5 acres of land with FIFA standard. FC Deccan Sports Park is the name of the place, kindly Google it. FCD (F.C.Deccan) plays in the top league of Karnataka and will be part of 2nd Division League this year. Also I request you to do some research on the Indian football scenario before deleting pages, it takes of lot of effort to built a page. Also lots of clubs pages are available on wiki which do even exists now, kindly remove them.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Narayans.in (talk • contribs) 13:05, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, it was deemed non-notable through AfD only a few weeks ago, if you want it resotred you're going to need to indicate GNG sources, please. Fenix down (talk) 14:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

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An editor has asked for a deletion review of Alan Milliner. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Ivan Milenin (talk) 00:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

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Hi Fenix down,

What was your rationale for closing "these" prematurely?

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Doncaster Rovers Belles L.F.C. season

Hmlarson (talk) 01:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Clear consensus to delete, no realistic chance of a change. 56 minutes early on a week close not really a big deal. Fenix down (talk) 17:30, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

That's not a clear consensus and you failed to re-list for further discussion. Further, you forgot to indicate your rationale for closure. Is this typical for you? Hmlarson (talk) 01:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

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An admin has place gng tag in the article West Block Blues now and it has been proposed to merge.As you were in previous afd and merger discussion please tell your opinion there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:West_Block_Blues#Merge_Request WhiteFalcon1 (talk) 04:44, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

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https://fcastana.kz/page/emblema

Pls add new logo on page, i dont know and lot of users are lazy

Not sure why you closed this, given the clear BEFORE failure, and with no chance to explore where one would find relevant materials. Why not apply WP:NORUSH with brand new questions, in a poorly attended AFD, with one of the only two "delete" comments coming from an editor with a long documented history of lack of competence and a partial topic-ban in the area, who has made it very clear that they vote on their opinion, and not in support of policy? Nfitz (talk) 18:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Three deletes and one comment from yourself, no keeps, no other votes for draft or merge or anything. The references you provided indicate name checks and nothing more. I didnt see anything in there approaching gng. Theres no rush if there's sources indicating potential gng, your comment didn't show that. Did I miss something? Which three of those sources indicated significant coverage to satisfy gng? Your comments on the editor in question are irrelevant if you can't show gng and therefore an issue with the nomination itself. You need to avoid comments like the one above because it is focused on ad hominem not the notability of the subject. Fenix down (talk) 22:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

you deleted Folarin Balogun and he played for Arsenal tonight in the Europa League. Please reinstate his page. thanks

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/players/balogun-arsenal-debut-dundalk-win-19190423 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.36.46 (talk) 00:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Whilst he did make his debut it was not in a game involving two teams from fully professional leagues as required by WP:NFOOTY. Fenix down (talk) 10:06, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Regarding your query here, that edit was made by @KingSkyLord: here, presumably in error? GiantSnowman 09:54, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks GS, I assumed it was in error too, I couldn't see any discussion about removing it on any talk pages. I know it kind of duplicates stuff in the article alert section, but it is better presented than that section plus includes useful information about nominating for deletion so think it should stay. Fenix down (talk) 11:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: Yeah, that was made in error. 😭 My bad. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 16:58, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Not a problem as far as I am concerned, looked a bit odd that's all given how useful that section is. Fenix down (talk) 23:35, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi Fenix down, Ishan Pandita have joined the Indian Super League side FC Goa this year. So I have mended the article and recreated with proper and reliable sources. Now this article is fully following all notability guidelines properly. Do please let me publish the new article and please remove the protection from the page. I have done my work on my sandbox and here it is => https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Debabrata_Sarkar_Mejbill/sandbox Please go through the article on my sandbox and please remove the protection. Thank you Debabrata Sarkar Mejbill (talk) 10:28, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I'll publish the article after a match played by Pandita. So please Remove the Protection before the 1st match of FC Goa in the 2020-21 Indian Super League. Thank you Debabrata Sarkar Mejbill (talk) 10:32, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Let me know when he does play and I will remove the protection then, he's not notable yet and still might never be (though this is less likely now). Fenix down (talk) 13:38, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Fenix down. Debabrata Sarkar Mejbill (talk) 04:37, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

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You recently delete my article, Soccerhub_(website) I found an article about the subject on entrepreneurbreaks https://entrepreneursbreak.com/awonusi-abiodun-also-known-as-oluboytech-is-set-to-unveil-soccerhub-forum.html Could this convince you to revert your actions, just asking. Lynndonald (talk) 16:48, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Not really, its very short and doesn't in my mind come close to satisfying the notion of "significant coverage" as outlined in WP:GNG. Even with other sources, the brevity of this article means it would carry very little weight unfortunately. Fenix down (talk) 18:01, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I think this was a poor close; there was clear consensus to delete. There were no issues or prejudice caused by the bundling of only two articles, and what purpose would be served by re-nominating both again? GiantSnowman 14:56, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

There absolutely was not clear consensus to delete. Three people voted delete including the nominator, three people requested the opportunity to review individually and one person voted keep to both of them, though didn't actually provide any proper reasoning for that. Yes they probably are both not notable, but that's not a conclusion that can be drawn from the consensus in this discussion. If people want to discuss essentially unrelated articles separately they sbouldbe allowed that if only as a courtesy. Fenix down (talk) 19:30, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Again, what purpose would separate discussion serve? Nobody who requested that face any indication that the topics were notable or would be kept at a new discussion. This is bureaucracy for the sake of it, and this type of bundling (again, only two articles!) is allowed by WP:MULTIAFD. GiantSnowman 11:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

It would serve clarity and, as I said above, it would serve courtesy, particularly given that in recent weeks there have been a lot of non-notable female footballers nominated and there have been a large number of non-policy related, emotional responses from editors. There's no rush to delete anything and ensuring we are clear on everything and have a genuine consensus avoids issues further down the line. Fenix down (talk) 11:47, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi, friend I guess you are on wikipedia since long, I need your help. There is an Indian footballer whose page is been created by me and same time it's in Draft Article for submission as well. We are awaiting someone for reviewing it. Could you please do that.Vishalttplayer (talk) 08:16, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi, given that I was involved in the deletion, its probably better that someone uninvolved makes that call, especially as I have deleted the article twice. Fenix down (talk) 14:00, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi. After six years of incubation, do you think http://deletionpedia.org/en/Sorin_Virgil_Oproiescu is ready to return?   — Jeff G. ツ 18:40, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi. Has he played in a fully professional league, played senior international football or been the subject of sufficient general coverage likely to satisfy GNG? Fenix down (talk) 20:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

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